Posts by the pharmer

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

lol...and entertaining (or not). :)

Thanks jrk. I'm almost speechless (maybe people would prefer that! lol)

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

Djeggnog...I don't want to sound rude, but...NO MORE NONSENSE! ...Please? :)

Get back to addressing the conflicting statements you introduced in your answer to my original questions.

Either reconcile all your conflicting information I pointed out, or show me how I am wrong that they conflict. Your failure to do so will just be evidence that you can't.

Thanks!

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

But above you said "chord," didn't you? So if we're talking about an F# chord, then this would consist of F#, Bb and C#, but for purposes of this discussion, we'll call these keys F#, A# and C#. If we're talking about an F#-minor chord, then this would consist of F#, A and C#, but for purposes of this discussion, we'll call these keys F#, A and C#. What was your point?

The above is what I had intended to write.

But again, you are mistaken. If you want to talk enharmonic equivalents, you need to say “Gb (major) chord”, which consists of Gb, Bb and Db – there is no F# chord that has a flat in it. F# chords only have sharps and naturals.

I think we both know who it was that contributed the word "quality" as well as the rest of this verbiage to Wikipedia

Huh?? You lost me there. Besides, Wikipedia is not the only source that supports the use of “quality”. Come on now.

From a guitar theory site:

The terms Major, Minor , Augmented and Diminished are used as a suffix to describe the quality of different triads similar to the way these terms are used as a prefix to describe the quality of intervals. (Notice that "perfect" is not used as a suffix for triads)

Oh look, another site teaching music theory (and they even support my other point about the 3 rd scale degree being pivotal as to whether it is major or minor…hmmm:

So what determines major or minor quality ? Getting back to our chapter topic of major / minor tonality, you may have noticed that in the charts above that the 3rd scale degree, our lettered pitch E in the above examples, is consistently in bold type. It's the interval quality of the 3rd scale degree above the starting fundamental or root pitch, that determines whether our scales, arpeggios and chords are either major or minor

I could keep adding to the list, but…moving on.

My only objection is that you don't seem to realize that musicians don't speak in terms of C-natural when they are articulating to someone the notes that they are playing, either in a chord or in a musical scale

If the key, or whether it is major/minor/or whatever, has not been determined or defined, you better believe musicians will speak in terms of whether or not a note they are playing is sharp/flat/natural, especially if there is a debate as to whether or not what is written and being played is correct. And that is exactly the scenario my example is depicting.

Djeggnog, it’s almost as if you are trying to not understand me. If you think I don’t know anything about what musicians speak, you are greatly mistaken. The last conversation I had with a musician occurred last night…I spoke with Christian Lindberg – one of the world’s finest trombone soloists. Although I have much to learn, I am not completely ignorant either. The last email correspondence I had with a musician was Friday night with David Hickman…also a wonderful player -- in fact, a world famous trumpet performer/teacher and a friend of mine. Music is not just a hobby for me. Maybe you could consider giving my input the slightest bit of value…or not.

With respect to the melodic major and minor "triads," it is always the third note in the minor triad that is flatted, so to speak, which is why, as I stated above, I had to have been exhausted to have completely ignored the fact that there are 12 intervals (half-steps) in a musical scale ..

Are you serious?? Or are you just playing around?? Major and minor scalse consist of 7 intervals (varying combinations of whole and half-steps).

12 half-step intervals in a musical scale? We musicians refer to that scale as a chromatic scale. What the heck does the chromatic scale have to do with this??

when I wrote what I did about the harmonic F#-minor chord's fourth interval being a Eb (D#), when the fourth interval will always be a C# (Db), …

We musicians don’t talk about an interval being one note…an interval, by definition, is the interval between two notes. What you are referring to is what we musicians call scale degree defining its position in the scale – i.e. for a C# in the F# minor chord you speak of, it is the “5 th ”. The interval you assign to it will depend on what note you’re comparing it to – i.e. the root to the 5 th is an interval of a perfect fifth in this case.

when this note will always be five half-steps away from the root note .

Huh?? You have got to be pulling my leg!! LOL!

Okay, I’ll play along. Five half-steps from the root note would take you to the 4th note in the scale, which is not a C#. So, the F# is the root in this case. You are talking about C# in the F# harmonic minor scale. We determined that C# is the 5 th scale degree. The interval from the root (F#) to the 5 th (C#) is NOT five half-steps! The interval is what we musicians call a perfect fifth…which would be equivalent to 7 half-steps (although we wouldn’t refer to it that way…we use perfect fifth instead)!

While a minor chord will always be three half-steps away from the root note, a major chord will always be four half-steps away from the root note.

Uhmm…if you mean to say that the 3 rd in a minor chord will always be 3 half-steps away from the root (that interval is what we musicians call a minor third), then yes, you are correct…but that’s not really what you said.

Uhmm…if you mean to say that the 3 rd in a major chord will always be 4 half-steps away from the root (that interval is what we musicians call a major third), then yes, you are correct…but that’s not really what you said either.

Wow…am I missing something critical that would clear up all of your, what appears to be, nonsense?? Is this the kind of approach you take when trying to answer other questions? If so, it should be no surprise to me that you can’t see how your other answers have produced conflicts. Just being honest.

And with this "lesson," I'm done

LOL! Looks to me like you never started. If that was a lesson, I demand a refund! :)

Seriously djeggnog…as amusing as that was, don’t waste my time with nonsense…please. And if you were serious, then…wow.

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

Awww, wiki likes me!

My initial musical point that wiki supports…

The hallmark that distinguishes major keys from minor is whether the third scale degree is major or minor . "The crucial difference is that in the minor scale there is only a half step between the second and third tones as compared to the major scales where the difference between third and fourth note and between the seventh and the eighth note is half." [1] This alteration in the third degree "greatly changes" the mood of the music, and "music based on minor scales tends to" be considered to "sound serious or melancholic". [1]

In my initial music example, I spoke of the “key”…and you accused me of not mentioning chords until I tried to clear your confusion (which was true, and I acknowledged that I know you aren’t a mind reader, but I’m sure glad wiki is!) :)

Although many musicians confuse key with scale , a scale is an ordered set of notes typically used in a key, while the key is the center of gravity, established by particular chord progressions . [2]

And another issue you accused me of being wrong…

…broadly speaking the phrase in key of C means that C is music's harmonic center or tonic . Note that the letter-name "C" does not indicatea single specific pitch but rather all pitches with the letter name C .

I’m certain this is sufficient supportive evidence.

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

LOL!

Awww...someone else agrees with my funny vocabulary!

(from wikipedia)

The most frequently encountered chords are triads, so called because they consist of three distinct notes: further notes may be added to give seventh chords, extended chords, or added tone chords. The most common chords are the major and minor triads and then the augmented and diminished triads. The descriptions "major", "minor", "augmented" and "diminished" are sometimes referred to collectively as chordal "quality". Chords are also commonly classed by their root note so, for instance, the chord C Major may be described as a triad of major quality built upon the note C. Chords may also be classified by inversion, the order in which their notes are stacked.

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

Okay, this is the last music one (haha, a musician’s famous last words…”this is the last time”) :)

I know this isn’t a Music thread, but I need to defend my comments against these elementary misconceptions.

I cannot agree with what you say here about F# having the "same 3 sharps present";

Notice how you are responding to a comment of mine where I had used the terms relative minor.

It is apparent you are not familiar with major keys and their relative minor keys, or vice versa, minor keys and their relative major keys.

Look it up.

Had you understood that, you would have never said “I cannot agree with what you say here...".

Another elementary mistake.

Okay, I’ll try not to let these errors of yours distract me from my main points.

Sorry

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

Djeggnog,

Sorry, I thought I had answered this question, but realized I didn’t yet:

I don't understand, did any of the things I stated in my previous post not clear up your misunderstanding of the following:

If not, maybe it isn't possible for me to articulate an answer to your opening question.

You certainly gave a response to my opening question, but in doing so, you presented a couple of conflicting statements/ideas which either needed to be reconciled or shown how I am wrong and that they were in fact not conflicting.

Although you have attempted both, you have not succeeded.

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

Woo hoo! Look djeggnog,

I just discovered how to type accidentals on the computer and thought I would share! :)

For a flat note: Type 266d and then press Alt-X

For a natural note: Type 266e and then press Alt-X

For a sharp note: Type 266f and then press Alt-X

Now I don’t have to say “natural” and I can actually use the sign.

Also, musical food for thought:

When someone asks a musician, “What are the fingerings/positions for playing the A scale?” A beginning or less advanced musician would likely make an assumption and answer by giving the fingerings/positions for the A-major scale.

But a more experienced musician would realize the incompleteness of that kind of answer and would not give an answer without first asking, “To which ‘A’ scale are you referring, for there are several”.

The same would hold true when asking how many sharps or flats are in the key of “A”...“To which key of ‘A’ do you refer, for there are several.”

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

So if we're talking about an F# chord, then this would consist of F#, Bb and Eb, but for purposes of this discussion, we'll call these keys F#, A# and D#.

Sorry, I can't let this go...

An F# chord would never contain flats...only sharps and naturals. The Bb and Eb are what is known as enharmonic equivalents...and although they are the same pitch and fingerings as A# and D# respectively, to write them as flats in musical notation in an F# chord would be flat out wrong. (pun intended). Your latter statement is accurate and should always be used. The former view is an elementary mistake.

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

the pharmer

Djeggnog, you said:

I'm never going to change my position (which is what your questions are seeking), so when I write "Ok," this signals that I have reached a point in our discussion where I can acknowledge what you have said, but cannot agree with what you have said.

You are wrong, I am not seeking for you to change your position, but rather I am seeking (if I am in fact wrong on weighing the evidence you’ve provided me) for you to simply show me exactly why and how I am wrong. “OK” simply tells me that you are unable to do so. That is fine though, I’ll accept that as evidence that needs to be weighed in the same way as all your other evidence.

While I have said, and do say, that anyone unwilling for any reason to accept a wrong viewpoint along with 'the body' of JWs, or rather, anyone that should be unwilling for any reason to accept what might be an incorrect viewpoint for the time being until an adjustment is made and beings to official teach something else altogether different than what Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching others at that time, cannot be one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

At least you’re able to admit that.

I have appreciated your time and efforts.